[YAM - Yet Another Mailer] Topic #15 - Change return-path? http://yam.ch/discussion/topic/15 <p> Change return-path? </p> en-us YAM - Yet Another Mailer http://yam.ch/chrome/site/yam.gif http://yam.ch/discussion/topic/15 Trac 1.0.1 - DiscussionPlugin weiseb Thu, 05 Nov 2009 11:56:03 GMT Topic #15 - Change return-path? http://yam.ch/discussion/topic/15#topic http://yam.ch/discussion/topic/15#topic <p> If I change the from address via options tab when writing a mail the "return-path" remains as given on first steps from settings. </p> <p> Is it somehow possible to change this behaviour. </p> <p> I am using the last stable version (2.5) </p> Topic weiseb Sat, 14 Nov 2009 20:30:42 GMT Reply #49 to topic #15 - Change return-path? http://yam.ch/discussion/message/49#message49 http://yam.ch/discussion/message/49#message49 <blockquote class="citation"> <p> I'd say it all boils down to the fact that YAM has no multiple <acronym title="Simple Mail Transfer Protocol">SMTP</acronym> support yet. </p> </blockquote> <p> I agree that would be a clean solution </p> <blockquote class="citation"> <p> The address on the quick start page is used to authenticate yourself against the single <acronym title="Simple Mail Transfer Protocol">SMTP</acronym> server which YAM can handle right now. If you change this address and the <acronym title="Simple Mail Transfer Protocol">SMTP</acronym> server still accepts mails with differing From: and sender addresses, then the <acronym title="Simple Mail Transfer Protocol">SMTP</acronym> server is severly broken, because this is one of the roots of spam mails. </p> </blockquote> <p> The old "is it a bug or a feature" discussion. </p> <p> I do agree it is somehow irritating that a subset of mailservers do not check if you own the address you are using. But I do not understand why you are making a difference between "from" Header and sender address/return-path because I consider the from address the more important one and on the other hand to authenticate against the server the userid/password is used. </p> <p> From my experience there are two kinds of mailservers: freemailer servers that allow exactly one sender address, from has to be the same payed servers where you can choose sender address and from header field at will </p> <p> So freemailer users cant change the from addres or sender address anyway and users with payed server users usually want the return path change as well if they change the from address. </p> <p> The problem for me is that I can change the from using arexx but not the sender. Same problem with YAMs built-in Mailinglist feature. </p> <blockquote class="citation"> <p> Thunderbird for example can uniquely assign <acronym title="Simple Mail Transfer Protocol">SMTP</acronym> servers to <acronym title="Post Office Protocol">POP3</acronym>/<acronym title="Internet Message Access Protocol">IMAP</acronym> accounts. But you still have the option to use one single <acronym title="Simple Mail Transfer Protocol">SMTP</acronym> server, even for <acronym title="Post Office Protocol">POP3</acronym>/<acronym title="Internet Message Access Protocol">IMAP</acronym> accounts at different providers. I just checked this and set GMX to be the <acronym title="Simple Mail Transfer Protocol">SMTP</acronym> server for my web.de account. And guess what? GMX rejects mails sent this way with exactly the same error message as I described in your bug report (address does not belong to logged in user). </p> </blockquote> <p> Hmm I am almost sure with this setting you are using your web.de email address with the gmx server as BOTH sender address and from and that would not be the same yam does, but what I want it to do. I downloaded Thunderbird and tried to mimic what you did and I ended up with return path and from being the same on both accounts with one default smtp server, this seems to back my assumption. </p> <p> If you are interested I would happily create a full featured/buggy <img src="/chrome/emoticons/wink.png" alt=";)" class="emoticon" width="18" height="18" style="vertical-align: middle" /> smtp account for you to play with it </p> <blockquote class="citation"> <p> As soon as YAM gets multiple <acronym title="Simple Mail Transfer Protocol">SMTP</acronym> support this will change, but still then you will be able to set up invalid combinations of authentication address and From: address. If this combination will be accepted by the <acronym title="Simple Mail Transfer Protocol">SMTP</acronym> server if beyond YAM's scope. </p> </blockquote> <p> Fair enough. Thanks for your afford. </p> Message thboeckel Fri, 13 Nov 2009 09:02:31 GMT Reply #48 to topic #15 - Change return-path? http://yam.ch/discussion/message/48#message48 http://yam.ch/discussion/message/48#message48 <p> I'd say it all boils down to the fact that YAM has no multiple <acronym title="Simple Mail Transfer Protocol">SMTP</acronym> support yet. The address on the quick start page is used to authenticate yourself against the single <acronym title="Simple Mail Transfer Protocol">SMTP</acronym> server which YAM can handle right now. If you change this address and the <acronym title="Simple Mail Transfer Protocol">SMTP</acronym> server still accepts mails with differing From: and sender addresses, then the <acronym title="Simple Mail Transfer Protocol">SMTP</acronym> server is severly broken, because this is one of the roots of spam mails. </p> <p> Thunderbird for example can uniquely assign <acronym title="Simple Mail Transfer Protocol">SMTP</acronym> servers to <acronym title="Post Office Protocol">POP3</acronym>/<acronym title="Internet Message Access Protocol">IMAP</acronym> accounts. But you still have the option to use one single <acronym title="Simple Mail Transfer Protocol">SMTP</acronym> server, even for <acronym title="Post Office Protocol">POP3</acronym>/<acronym title="Internet Message Access Protocol">IMAP</acronym> accounts at different providers. I just checked this and set GMX to be the <acronym title="Simple Mail Transfer Protocol">SMTP</acronym> server for my web.de account. And guess what? GMX rejects mails sent this way with exactly the same error message as I described in your bug report (address does not belong to logged in user). Thus you can do the same (illegal?) stuff with Thunderbird as you can do with YAM. It might not be as easy as with YAM, but it is possible. It is up to the <acronym title="Simple Mail Transfer Protocol">SMTP</acronym> server to check if the address of the logged in user and the From: address of the mail do match. </p> <p> As soon as YAM gets multiple <acronym title="Simple Mail Transfer Protocol">SMTP</acronym> support this will change, but still then you will be able to set up invalid combinations of authentication address and From: address. If this combination will be accepted by the <acronym title="Simple Mail Transfer Protocol">SMTP</acronym> server if beyond YAM's scope. </p> <p> Until that is implemented users must accept that YAM handles one "main" account only for sending and receiving mails while it handles several receive-only accounts. If you wish to send mail from a different sender address then you will have to modify all quick start and <acronym title="Simple Mail Transfer Protocol">SMTP</acronym> related settings accordingly. </p> Message weiseb Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:11:30 GMT Reply #47 to topic #15 - Change return-path? http://yam.ch/discussion/message/47#message47 http://yam.ch/discussion/message/47#message47 <blockquote class="citation"> <p> just tried to reproduce this stuff and changed my address in the quick setup to "bogus@…", then I wrote a mail to myself. Sending this mail was impossible, because GMX didn't accept the mail as the user "bogus@…" is unknown. A different address (foobar@…) caused a similar error message, because this address exists but does not belong to me. </p> </blockquote> <p> I am pretty sure you are also not allowed to change from address with your freemailer. If you are I would actually agree that YAMs behaviour is ok and buy you a beer. </p> <blockquote class="citation"> <p> The reason why "bogus@…" appears in the Return-Path line of the mail you *received* is that this address was used to authenticate against the mail server </p> </blockquote> <p> ... </p> <blockquote class="citation"> <p> YAM uses the quick setup address as "sending" address </p> </blockquote> <p> Cool finally I made myself clear. </p> <blockquote class="citation"> <p> Sorry, there is nothing wrong with YAM here, but just with the way you use certain settings and even more that your mail provider accepts invalid (or as you say "bogus") addresses at all. </p> </blockquote> <p> I agree its not a bug. Yam has a very special way to somehow allow multiple mail usage but not going all the way. </p> <p> So its hard to compare it with the behaviour of other mailers in this case. </p> <blockquote class="citation"> <p> You can also check yourself that YAM does *not* insert the line by looking at the raw mail text after you sent it. </p> </blockquote> <p> Here i seem to have a different perspective from yours. Yes the return-path is not part of the message itself Yam forces the server to add it using the sender address. </p> <p> Using a sender addres/return-path different from the "from" might make sense in some cases. As I said above if you really can change the from address to something you want if you use your accounts gmx address as sender than it is better the way it is now for most users. </p> Message weiseb Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:21:34 GMT Reply #46 to topic #15 - Change return-path? http://yam.ch/discussion/message/46#message46 http://yam.ch/discussion/message/46#message46 <p> ok I filled in a bug report thanks </p> Message thboeckel Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:22:44 GMT Reply #45 to topic #15 - Change return-path? http://yam.ch/discussion/message/45#message45 http://yam.ch/discussion/message/45#message45 <blockquote class="citation"> <p> Thank you for answering. That is strange all my Mails have a return-path header field as described above. It makes no difference if I reply, write a new mail or change smtp server. </p> </blockquote> <p> YAM can handle a Return-Path line, which is required for MDN handling, but it does not create one. So if you write a new mail it simply cannot contain that kind of header line. </p> <p> If you are still sure that YAM creates this header line at all and/or with wrong contents, then please open a bug report in YAM's bugtracker and provide a raw example mail (YAM's main menu -&gt; Message -&gt; Export). To be able to attach files to a bug report you must have a valid login at sourceforge.net and you must be logged in. Anonymous reporters cannot attach files. </p> <p> If you receive mails which contain the Return-Path header line then this line was not inserted by the original sender, but somewhere on the way to you. Hence there is no reason for YAM to insert itself. At least this is what I conclude from <a class="acronym" href="http://www.ietf.org/rfc.html"><acronym title="IETF Request For Comment">RFC</acronym></a> 882. </p> Message weiseb Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:45:46 GMT Reply #44 to topic #15 - Change return-path? http://yam.ch/discussion/message/44#message44 http://yam.ch/discussion/message/44#message44 <p> Thank you for answering. That is strange all my Mails have a return-path header field as described above. It makes no difference if I reply, write a new mail or change smtp server. </p> Message thboeckel Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:17:41 GMT Reply #43 to topic #15 - Change return-path? http://yam.ch/discussion/message/43#message43 http://yam.ch/discussion/message/43#message43 <blockquote class="citation"> <p> If I change the from address via options tab when writing a mail the "return-path" remains as given on first steps from settings. </p> </blockquote> <p> Which return-path are you talking about? If you reply to a mail with YAM the outgoing mail does not contain a return-path: line. The From: and Reply-To: lines are set to exactly what you entered in the corresponding fields on the options page of the write window. </p> Message